“Sometimes people leave you. Halfway through the wood.” Stephen Sondheim wrote those words for the song “No One Is Alone”, part of the musical “Into the Woods.”* But he very much could have written them for these times. Because so many of us feel as if we’ve been left in the woods with no uncertain path out of the dark days of this pandemic.

This episode isn’t about creating those paths. Rather, it’s about an honest, vulnerable and, yes, uncertain conversation between two friends who are experiencing COVID-19 very differently. A conversation about things a lot of us are feeling, but may not be saying out loud: That even for those of us who aren’t on the front lines and even though it’s barely been two months, we’re still feeling pretty burned out. That we’re not looking for things to do; we’re looking for our motivation (which has come a bit sooner for Brett Will than Renee). And that, even though we hate to admit anything positive about the self-help world, some of the simplest memes and sayings actually are helping (but only if Buddha said them first!).

This episode isn’t for the zombie protestors and it’s not for the perfect Pats who have yet to break a single COVID-19 rule. It’s for all of us somewhere in between. The ones who want to do the right thing, but also want to get out.

Of these woods.


Given the times, this episode was recorded remotely using Zoom. The quality may not be great, but we hope the conversation is!


Brett Will Taylor, who calls on curiosity as his north star through the woods.

Renee Peck, who calls on hope and who hopes that it’s just around the corner.


Darrell Rollo, who has found motivation and determination not to emerge from the pandemic having gained all the weight he worked so hard to lose.